Is the Jacques Soghomonian group defunct?

[Eric Stetson]

Hello,

I have noticed that all the pro-Soghomonian internet discussion groups
have been quiet for a long time, and Jacques Soghomonian's spokesman
Brent Reed is no longer actively promoting the Guardianship of
Soghomonian in cyberspace. I have also noticed that Soghomonian's
group STILL does not have an official web presence, such as a homepage
or anything that would provide the public with documents and
information in support of Soghomonian's claim and his view of the
Baha'i religion. Do these facts imply that the Jacques Soghomonian
sect is now defunct? Is Mr. Soghomonian now deceased? I read a
message from a Soghomonian supporter in the Heart of the Baha'i Faith
discussion group saying that he had written a will and appointed a
successor, but that was some time ago. Does anybody know what has
happened to this group of Baha'is? Is there still anyone who supports
the claim of Mr. Soghomonian, or have his followers disbanded?

Thank you to anyone who can provide some answers....

Eric Stetson
The Baha'i Faith: An Ex-Baha'i Christian View
http://www.bahai-faith.com

[s***@jam.rr.com]

Post by Eric Stetson
I have noticed that all the pro-Soghomonian internet discussion groups
have been quiet for a long time, and Jacques Soghomonian's spokesman
Brent Reed is no longer actively promoting the Guardianship of
Soghomonian in cyberspace.

Dear Eric,

Is Heart of the Baha'i Faith not operating? I notice it's archives are
no longer accessible to non-members. Are you saying Brent Reed is no
longer involved with it?

I have also noticed that Soghomonian's

Post by Eric Stetson
group STILL does not have an official web presence, such as a

homepage

Post by Eric Stetson
or anything that would provide the public with documents and
information in support of Soghomonian's claim and his view of the
Baha'i religion. Do these facts imply that the Jacques Soghomonian
sect is now defunct?

I'm not sure there ever was an oranized sect, Eric. My understanding is
that the Soghomonians don't so much deny the legitimacy of the
Universal House of Justice as hold it cannot operate properly without a
Guardian. For that reason, Soghomonian, like Harvey before him refused
to form a separate organization holding that what needed to happen was
for the Guardianship to be joined with the House of Justice.

I was curious as to why Brent Reed seems to have disappeared. You might
try and contact Brent Mattheius. He probably knows what is going on.

warmest, Susan

[Eric Stetson]

Susan,

Only 13 messages total have been posted on the Heart of the Baha'i
Faith discussion group so far in 2005. Brent Reed has not posted there
since January. The pro-Soghomonian message board on Beliefnet is
extremely quiet, too. I noticed that somebody on HBF posted in late
spring 2004 that Soghomonian had appointed his successor in a letter
and will-and-testament sent to his followers in April, but that
successor was not named on the forum but was only announced privately.
Brent Reed made an announcement around the same time that he was going
to step down as moderator of HBF and look for somebody else to moderate
the group. This could mean either that Reed became disillusioned that
he was not chosen to succeed Soghomonian, or that he was chosen as
successor and Soghomonian has assigned him other responsibilities that
take up his time. Or it could just be a coincidence.

Susan, thanks for the explanation you have given about the beliefs and
strategy of Soghomonian. It appears that somebody else might soon be
taking the reins of this loosely organized sect, since Soghomonian has
already announced his successor to his followers in his will. It will
be interesting to see if this group persists beyond the death of
Soghomonian, or dissolves completely (as already appears to be
occurring).

Eric

[s***@jam.rr.com]

Post by Eric Stetson
Susan, thanks for the explanation you have given about the beliefs and
strategy of Soghomonian. It appears that somebody else might soon be
taking the reins of this loosely organized sect, since Soghomonian has
already announced his successor to his followers in his will.

I'm wondering if it wasn't Brent Mattheiu. I'm under the impression he
was offered the Guardianship at one time.

[Eric Stetson]

Post by s***@jam.rr.com

Post by Eric Stetson
Susan, thanks for the explanation you have given about the beliefs

and

Post by Eric Stetson
strategy of Soghomonian. It appears that somebody else might soon be
taking the reins of this loosely organized sect, since Soghomonian

has

Post by Eric Stetson
already announced his successor to his followers in his will.

I'm wondering if it wasn't Brent Mattheiu. I'm under the impression he
was offered the Guardianship at one time.

Could be. I think that was the name of the guy who made the
announcement about Soghomonian's will and successor on HBF. Who is he,
anyway? I had never heard of him before.

If what you say is right, Susan, I bet Brent Reed must be quite
irritated to have done so much hard work promoting Soghomonian, only to
see the ultimate prize slip through his fingers! It seemed pretty
obvious to me that one of the major reasons he tried to resurrect
Soghomonian's paper guardianship was probably in the hope of getting
appointed to be the fifth guardian. I mean, as far as I know, Reed has
done much more work promoting Soghomonian's claim than he has himself.
However, I really don't know anything about these people. All I know
about Brent Reed is that he seems like a nice guy and sincere in what
he believes. I was kind of hoping he'd get a shot at being the next
leader of the sect he so fervently worked to promote.

Eric

[All_Bad]

Post by Eric Stetson

Post by Eric Stetson
I have noticed that all the pro-Soghomonian internet discussion

groups

Post by Eric Stetson
have been quiet for a long time, and Jacques Soghomonian's spokesman
Brent Reed is no longer actively promoting the Guardianship of
Soghomonian in cyberspace.

Dear Eric,
Is Heart of the Baha'i Faith not operating? I notice it's archives are
no longer accessible to non-members. Are you saying Brent Reed is no
longer involved with it?
I have also noticed that Soghomonian's

Post by Eric Stetson
group STILL does not have an official web presence, such as a

homepage

Post by Eric Stetson
or anything that would provide the public with documents and
information in support of Soghomonian's claim and his view of the
Baha'i religion. Do these facts imply that the Jacques Soghomonian
sect is now defunct?

I'm not sure there ever was an oranized sect, Eric. My understanding is
that the Soghomonians don't so much deny the legitimacy of the
Universal House of Justice as hold it cannot operate properly without a
Guardian. For that reason, Soghomonian, like Harvey before him refused
to form a separate organization holding that what needed to happen was
for the Guardianship to be joined with the House of Justice.
I was curious as to why Brent Reed seems to have disappeared. You might
try and contact Brent Mattheius. He probably knows what is going on.

I think the whole question is curious. Eric took some time off. I
don't see why Brent's absence needs to be somehow interpreted to mean
something beyond his absence. I don't recall a big discussoion on the
implications of Eric's absence.

- All Bad

[s***@jam.rr.com]

Post by All_Bad
I
don't see why Brent's absence needs to be somehow interpreted to mean
something beyond his absence. I don't recall a big discussoion on the
implications of Eric's absence.

Oh, we asked about him now and then.

[All_Bad]

Post by s***@jam.rr.com

Post by All_Bad
I
don't see why Brent's absence needs to be somehow interpreted to mean
something beyond his absence. I don't recall a big discussoion on

the

Post by All_Bad
implications of Eric's absence.

Oh, we asked about him now and then.

Back in Feb, Paul started a thread on Eric Stetson, pasting in about his
trials.

I did speculate on the association of his calling upon Satane with the
dysautonomia. Some would presume that the one could have caused the
other, and vice verse. W/o little to work with, it is just speculation.
Likewise Brent. Maybe business picked up and the absence has nothing
to do w/ his religious stuff?

- All Bad

[Eric Stetson]

Post by All_Bad
Back in Feb, Paul started a thread on Eric Stetson, pasting in about his
trials.
I did speculate on the association of his calling upon Satane with the
dysautonomia. Some would presume that the one could have caused the
other, and vice verse. W/o little to work with, it is just

speculation.

Just for the record, I now believe it had nothing to do with Satan,
because my mother has had autonomic nervous system problems for quite a
few years, and a doctor told me there could be a genetic connection.
Her condition was triggered by stress, and so was mine. It appears
that unusually high stress levels can permanently damage the nervous
system in susceptible individuals. At the time when I called upon
Satan, I was feeling very confused and was deperately looking for some
kind of sign to figure out what I was supposed to believe. I was
working 12 hour days at my job and then coming home at night and
studying religious texts, and was full of anger, anxiety, and
disillusionment about my religious beliefs. I believe it was these
factors combined with genetic predisposition that led to the
development of my neurological problems, not any literal intervention
by the devil.

Eric

[All_Bad]

Post by All_Bad

Post by All_Bad
Back in Feb, Paul started a thread on Eric Stetson, pasting in about

his

Post by All_Bad
trials.
I did speculate on the association of his calling upon Satane with

the

Post by All_Bad
dysautonomia. Some would presume that the one could have caused the
other, and vice verse. W/o little to work with, it is just

speculation.
Just for the record, I now believe it had nothing to do with Satan,
because my mother has had autonomic nervous system problems for quite a
few years, and a doctor told me there could be a genetic connection.
Her condition was triggered by stress, and so was mine. It appears
that unusually high stress levels can permanently damage the nervous
system in susceptible individuals. At the time when I called upon
Satan, I was feeling very confused and was deperately looking for some
kind of sign to figure out what I was supposed to believe. I was
working 12 hour days at my job and then coming home at night and
studying religious texts, and was full of anger, anxiety, and
disillusionment about my religious beliefs. I believe it was these
factors combined with genetic predisposition that led to the
development of my neurological problems, not any literal intervention
by the devil.

Thanks Eric. Now we won't be speculating about that, when we could get
the chance. Maybe we could speculate about shoe size, left-handedness,
tongue rolling, etc.

Take care of yourself.

- All Bad

[Eric Stetson]

Post by All_Bad
I think the whole question is curious. Eric took some time off. I
don't see why Brent's absence needs to be somehow interpreted to mean
something beyond his absence. I don't recall a big discussoion on the
implications of Eric's absence.
- All Bad

For one thing, I was not the internet spokesperson and potential
successor of anyone claiming to be the Guardian of the Baha'i Faith, so
my absence was not of any significance. I am just an ex-Baha'i. Let's
face it: before Brent Reed came along, hardly anyone even knew about
Jacques Soghomonian. Soghomonian had made no attempt to use the new
technology of the internet to publicize his claim and his views, and
has not even made publicly available the documents supporting his claim
to the Guardianship until Reed did this for him. What I was interested
in finding out is, without Reed is there any substance to Soghomonian's
group? It seems that now that Reed has stopped actively promoting
Soghomonian, the Soghomonian group seems to have disappeared from the
internet -- which nowadays means disappearing from public existence.
Either there is almost nobody but Brent Reed who believes in
Soghomonian, or else all his followers are without internet access, or
perhaps his group could still exist as some kind of secret society, I
suppose.

The reason I asked is because I was curious. And that's because I
happen to like Brent Reed and so, naturally, I wanted to know what he's
up to, and why the form of Baha'ism that he follows seems to be totally
inactive without his leadership. Brent Reed always struck me as one of
the most sincere, decent people who posts on Baha'i forums. I have
always sort of felt sorry for him that the guardian he chooses to
follow seems to be unwilling to actually do anything -- at least Joel
Marangella has an organization and writes lots of articles, but
Soghomonian seems to have no desire to do the kind of things a Baha'i
guardian would do -- so, having been excommunicated by both the Haifans
and the Marangellites, Brent Reed now finds himself in a sect that is
for all intents and purposes defunct without his own active leadership.
Then again, maybe the Soghomonian group has a lot going on behind the
scenes that nobody but them knows about.

Another reason I wanted to know what's really going on with Soghomonian
is because I have a paragraph about his sect on my website, and I want
to make sure the information I present is accurate and fair.

Eric

[All_Bad]

Post by Eric Stetson

Post by All_Bad
I think the whole question is curious. Eric took some time off. I
don't see why Brent's absence needs to be somehow interpreted to mean
something beyond his absence. I don't recall a big discussoion on
the implications of Eric's absence.
- All Bad

For one thing, I was not the internet spokesperson and potential
successor of anyone claiming to be the Guardian of the Baha'i Faith,

Eric, you had trumped successorship to Guardianhood w/ successorship to
Manifestationhood. You may have been unaware of this, but trust me,
pretender Manifestation outranks spokesperson for a pretender Guardian.

Post by Eric Stetson
so
my absence was not of any significance.

Not to you, since you knew what was going on, but anyone here could have
inferred you'd been beamed up to the mothership for a special Ruhi
course for ex-Manifestations, or such - who could really say?

Post by Eric Stetson
I am just an ex-Baha'i.

You're not just an ex-Baha'i.

Post by Eric Stetson
Let's
face it: before Brent Reed came along, hardly anyone even knew about
Jacques Soghomonian.

Let's face it, who are you talking about? Do you know anything about
either of these guys beyond what you read on the internet, and do you
really believe anything that seems to exist solely on the internet?

Post by Eric Stetson
Soghomonian had made no attempt to use the new
technology of the internet to publicize his claim and his views, and
has not even made publicly available the documents supporting his claim
to the Guardianship until Reed did this for him. What I was interested
in finding out is, without Reed is there any substance to Soghomonian's
group?

Even w/ Brent, two is hardly a group.

Post by Eric Stetson
It seems that now that Reed has stopped actively promoting
Soghomonian, the Soghomonian group seems to have disappeared from the
internet -- which nowadays means disappearing from public existence.
Either there is almost nobody but Brent Reed who believes in
Soghomonian, or else all his followers are without internet access, or
perhaps his group could still exist as some kind of secret society, I
suppose.
The reason I asked is because I was curious. And that's because I
happen to like Brent Reed and so, naturally, I wanted to know what he's
up to, and why the form of Baha'ism that he follows seems to be totally
inactive without his leadership. Brent Reed always struck me as one of
the most sincere, decent people who posts on Baha'i forums. I have
always sort of felt sorry for him that the guardian he chooses to
follow seems to be unwilling to actually do anything -- at least Joel
Marangella has an organization and writes lots of articles, but
Soghomonian seems to have no desire to do the kind of things a Baha'i
guardian would do -- so, having been excommunicated by both the Haifans
and the Marangellites, Brent Reed now finds himself in a sect that is
for all intents and purposes defunct without his own active leadership.
Then again, maybe the Soghomonian group has a lot going on behind the
scenes that nobody but them knows about.
Another reason I wanted to know what's really going on with Soghomonian
is because I have a paragraph about his sect on my website, and I want
to make sure the information I present is accurate and fair.

I think Brent would be more interesting than Jacques. If I understand
correctly Brent has not only been declared a Covenant Breaker by the
mainstream Baha'i community (less than 1% of the population) but also
been declared a Covenant Breaker by the Orthodox Baha'is (less than 1%
of the Baha'is). Brent represents a one in a million 'sort' of person.

Have you emailed him? I'm thinking that is your best source of reliable
information on Brent M. Reed.

- All Bad

[Eric Stetson]

Post by All_Bad

Post by Eric Stetson
For one thing, I was not the internet spokesperson and potential
successor of anyone claiming to be the Guardian of the Baha'i Faith,

Eric, you had trumped successorship to Guardianhood w/ successorship to
Manifestationhood. You may have been unaware of this, but trust me,
pretender Manifestation outranks spokesperson for a pretender

Guardian.

At the time I was absent from Baha'i internet activity, I was no longer
claiming to be anything other than a regular Christian.

Post by All_Bad

Post by Eric Stetson
so
my absence was not of any significance.

Not to you, since you knew what was going on, but anyone here could have
inferred you'd been beamed up to the mothership for a special Ruhi
course for ex-Manifestations, or such - who could really say?

Well, sure, people could think whatever they wanted. However, I had
posted a notice on my website, Bahai-Faith.com, stating that I was ill
and would no longer be active in Baha'i cyberspace. So the correct
information was there for anyone to see.

Post by All_Bad

Post by Eric Stetson
I am just an ex-Baha'i.

You're not just an ex-Baha'i.

I am both an ex-Baha'i and an ex- Baha'i false prophet. I am also an
ex- New Ager, ex-atheist, ex-Libertarian, ex-Republican, and most
recently, ex- fundamentalist Christian and ex-conservative politically.
However, my various phases of ideological belief all make sense in a
logical progression, as anyone who knows me personally understands. As
for my statement that "I am just an ex-Baha'i," my point was that when
I left Baha'i cyberspace, I was not still claiming any kind of status
or in charge of any group and was simply an ex-Baha'i believer in Jesus
Christ, nothing more.

Post by All_Bad
Have you emailed him? I'm thinking that is your best source of reliable
information on Brent M. Reed.

I guess I'll have to email him if I wish to find out the true answer.
I just thought someone here might know, so that's why I asked.

Eric

[s***@jam.rr.com]

What I was interested

Post by Eric Stetson
in finding out is, without Reed is there any substance to

Soghomonian's

Post by Eric Stetson
group?

Dear Eric,

I think there is at least some and I don't think most of them are a
result of Brent Reed's efforts. As a matter of fact, they seem to be
mostly Jensenite refugees. Those few who weren't seem to be attracted
by the fact that Soghomonian doesn't really require his followers to
abide by any Baha'i laws such as those involving drinking or
homosexuality. Like organization, Soghomonian is putting Baha'i law on
hold pending their reunification with the Universal House of Justice.


It seems that now that Reed has stopped actively promoting

Post by Eric Stetson
Soghomonian, the Soghomonian group seems to have disappeared from the
internet -- which nowadays means disappearing from public existence.

Again, not necessarily. The former Jensenites have their own networks.

Post by Eric Stetson
Either there is almost nobody but Brent Reed who believes in
Soghomonian, or else all his followers are without internet access, or
perhaps his group could still exist as some kind of secret society, I
suppose.

I would be curious to know if Brent Matthieu is still around. He had a
website full of correspondence between him and Pepe Remey. Is that
still up and running?

I have

Post by Eric Stetson
always sort of felt sorry for him that the guardian he chooses to
follow seems to be unwilling to actually do anything -- at least Joel
Marangella has an organization and writes lots of articles, but
Soghomonian seems to have no desire to do the kind of things a Baha'i
guardian would do

I personally think Brent chose Soghomonian precisely for that reason, I
think he went looking for a Guardian because he chafed under the rules
of the Baha'i community, then he found out that Joel pretty much
insisted on the same rules. So now he has a Guardian with no rules at
all!

warmest, Susan